Sunday, May 1, 2011

Were Socrates, Plato and Aristotle Gay?

We are asking, from the point of view of modern culture and ideas about sexuality, about a culture 3000 years in the past and their ideas about sexuality, and we want their ideas translated into modern ideas. "Gay" is a word we use now to describe certain types of male homosexuality, right? Well, what is male homosexuality? Is it the case that if a male person has one sexual experience, sometime in his life, with another male, he is homosexual? What if he has two... three... what would you take as a dividing line? What if a male desires other males, but not usually as much as he desires females, and never has a sexual encounter with another male; is he homosexual? What if he desires other males more than females, but never has a sexual encounter with another male? What if he desires other males less than females, but lives in a culture in which male-male sex is preferred, and has that kind of sex; is he homosexual? You can create a few more combinations here and puzzle over them if you want.

The latter case was, as far as we know, more-or-less the case in ancient Athens. Male/male sex was considered preferable to male/female sex as being an encounter between equals, and sex between an older man and a younger man was the most preferred, for a variety of reasons. Were the ancient Greeks homosexuals? From what we see in the Dialogues, Socrates actually seems, relatively, pretty "hetero", in that in at least one or two cases he refused offers of sex with other men. But there's no indication that he always refused it. He was married and had children, but that was the obligation they all had, otherwise the state would disappear.

As far as Aristotle goes, he and Plato probably had a lot of sex with men... were they "gay"? "Homosexual"? By their standards, our terms would have made no sense. Their culture preferred the opposite of what our culture prefers; how do you compare them, then? If you're evaluating it in terms of personal preferences, we have no idea at all of those; but we do know that one's preferences are due to some degree on one's culture and upbringing... but not entirely... so we're back to ground zero in terms of saying what, sexually, Plato and Aristotle, for example, "were" by modern standards. They were almost certainly men who had sex primarily with other men and probably preferred it that way, for some reasons quite dissimilar to, and probably other reasons quite similar to, the reasons men today have sex with other men.


  1. That... almost makes no sense. At least, that I know of, both Plato and Aristotle talked against having a "free sexuality". Plato, even, said that the lowest of all pleasurable forms, the one that should least be sought, was of the sensual kind that sex was.

    1. So you're saying they that they were not gay? Call it what you want, but if it's not Adam and Eve, and behaves like Adam and Steve; then, it's homosexual activity. On the other hand, if a man or woman only thinks and toys with the idea, then it's called homosexual tendencies! SO ARE THEY GAY OR WHAT?

    2. So you're saying they that they were not gay? Call it what you want, but if it's not Adam and Eve, and behaves like Adam and Steve; then, it's homosexual activity. On the other hand, if a man or woman only thinks and toys with the idea, then it's called homosexual tendencies! SO ARE THEY GAY OR WHAT?

    3. You can write about something like Plato did saying that the desire and pursuit of sex is a low form, but be a hypocrite in your own actions, which I believe has always been true in the case of the great philosophers.

  2. The fact remains that both Aristotle and Plato DID have sex with other men. Remember Christianity and Catholicism both were to have roots in these philosophers thoughts.

    1. i beg to disagree...true Catholicism or early christianity have their roots in Christ teachings. Paul of Tarsus may have learned from the Greek educational system but he still consider Christ to be the source of all truth and knowledge

    2. Yep! Those boys back in the day had no morality or scrupals! Their preference to sex partners was from what I've studied for the young defenseless male child, and probably some female as well. In Jungle language, "Easy Prey"

  3. I visited several web pages but the audio quality for
    audio songs present at this web page is in fact superb.
    Here is my homepage :: freeporn

  4. My brother recommended I might like this website. He was entirely right.
    This post actually made my day. You can not imagine simply how much time I had spent
    for this information! Thanks!
    My web page: nude teens

  5. I'm not sure where you're getting the bit about Socrates, since it seems pretty clear that he has a sexual relationship with Archimenides within Plato's Dialogues.

  6. Hello, everything is going fine here and ofcourse every one is sharing facts, that's in fact good, keep up writing.
    my web site - student Strips down and dance

  7. Do you mind if I quote a few of your articles as long as I provide credit and sources back to your
    website? My blog is in the very same area of interest as yours and my
    users would genuinely benefit from some of the information
    you provide here. Please let me know if this alright with you.
    Visit my page :: free teen porn

  8. I've been exploring for a bit for any high-quality articles or blog posts in this kind of space . Exploring in Yahoo I ultimately stumbled upon this site. Studying this info So i am glad to convey that I have an incredibly excellent uncanny feeling I found out exactly what I needed. I most definitely will make certain to don?t omit this web site and provides it a glance on a constant basis.
    Visit my blog post - free porn

  9. You made some really good points there. I checked on the internet to learn more about the issue
    and found most people will go along with your views on this site.
    my web page: free porn large cock

  10. Malaysia & Singapore & brunei finest internet blogshop for wholesale &
    quantity korean accessories, accessories, earstuds, locket,
    rings, bracelet, bangle & hair add-ons. Offer 35 % wholesale markdown. Ship Worldwide
    Also see my webpage :: need a sitter

  11. Malaysia & Singapore & brunei greatest online blogshop for wholesale & supply korean add-ons, accessories, earstuds, pendant, rings, bracelet, hair
    & bracelet add-ons. Offer 35 % wholesale markdown. Ship Worldwide
    Also see my site :: cerveau

  12. Quality articles is the main to attract the viewers to visit the web page, that's what this site is providing.
    Here is my weblog ... neucopia compensation plan

  13. porn spam on a philosophical blog. . . Socrates would be proud indeed.
    However, I am entertained as well as a bit ashamed. Naturally, I ask- Who is to blame?
    It's all food for thought and if you're not hungry- you're either dead or as good there.

  14. Its such as you learn my mind! You appear to grasp so much about this, like you wrote the guide in it or
    something. I believe that you simply could
    do with a few percent to drive the message home a bit, however instead
    of that, this is wonderful blog. An excellent read.
    I'll certainly be back.
    Have a look at my web site web hosting delhi

  15. Very quickly this web page will be famous amid all blog visitors, due to it's nice articles

    Feel free to visit my page; moneygram cash advance
    my page - cheap cash advance loans

  16. Greetings! Very helpful advice within this post! It is the little changes
    which will make the most important changes. Many thanks for sharing!

    Look into my web blog ... electrician katy

  17. Any other recommended pages of such content?

  18. An impressive share! I've just forwarded this onto a coworker who was conducting a little research on this. And he in fact bought me lunch simply because I discovered it for him... lol. So allow me to reword this.... Thanks for the meal!! But yeah, thanks for spending some time to discuss this subject here on your website.

    Also visit my blog -

  19. Good way of explaining, and nice post to obtain facts on the topic of
    my presentation topic, which i am going to present
    in school.

    Stop by my webpage -

  20. I am really thankful to the owner of this web page who has shared this wonderful paragraph at at this time.

    Here is my web site; downloadable free porn vids

  21. Thank you, I have just been looking for info about this topic for a long
    time and yours is the greatest I've discovered so far. But, what in regards to the bottom line? Are you certain concerning the supply?

    Feel free to surf to my blog

  22. Hello there, I discovered your website by the use of Google
    at the same time as searching for a similar matter, your site got here up, it appears to be like
    good. I have bookmarked it in my google bookmarks.

    Hi there, simply turned into alert to your weblog through Google, and located that it's truly informative. I am gonna watch out for brussels. I will be grateful in case you proceed this in future. Many other people will likely be benefited out of your writing. Cheers!

    Here is my web page -

  23. Very great post. I just stumbled upon your weblog
    and wanted to mention that I've really loved browsing your blog posts. In any case I will be subscribing for your feed and I am hoping you write again soon!

    My blog; naked massage

  24. You've made some really good points there. I looked on the net to learn more about the issue and found most people will go along with your views on this website.

    Here is my blog

  25. Definitely believe that which you said. Your favorite reason appeared to be on
    the net the easiest thing to be aware of. I say
    to you, I certainly get irked while people consider worries that
    they just do not know about. You managed to hit the nail upon the
    top as well as defined out the whole thing without having side-effects , people could take a signal.

    Will probably be back to get more. Thanks

    My blog post :: Nike Air Max

  26. Having read this I thought it was very informative.
    I appreciate you taking the time and effort to put this informative article together.
    I once again find myself personally spending way too much
    time both reading and posting comments. But so what, it was still worth it!

    Feel free to visit my webpage ... Boutique Air Jordan (

  27. Wow, fantastic weblog fоrmat! How lеngthy have you been
    гunnіng а blog foг?
    уou made гunning а blοg look
    eaѕy. The wholе look of your ѕite is ωonԁerful,
    as smartly аs the сontent!

    Mу weblog herbal incense spice ingredients what

  28. Its not my fiгst time to gо to seе this wеbsite, i аm visіtіng this webѕite dаіlly and obtаin fastiԁіous factѕ fгom here all the timе.

    Μy webpage herbal incense for sale

  29. The original question was: Were Socrates and Plato homosexuals?
    Instead of opining on it guys are getting water for their waterwheel.("llevan agua para su molino" )

  30. Why there are various comments inviting entering pornographic sites? D:


  31. Local free chat line numbers. Free Adult Live Chat you want, our free trial is exactly what you want. Site: Try our free trial, checkout our chat line payment options and connect to local phone chat line numbers. We have your free call number! Call NOW!!!! 1-517-753-2111 Free Trial Now you can talk and meet local and sexy singles in your area (over the age of 18).

    mature phone sex
    dirty talk
    free chat line

  32. “"Its always good to learn tips like you share for blog posting. As I just started posting comments for blog and facing problem of lots of rejections. I think your suggestion would be helpful for me. I will let you know if its work for me too."
    free live chatting
    free live chat with girls
    adult free live chat
    free online video chat with girls